Grand Prive Snubs the Affiliate Community

[The_CPA]

After years of affiliates faithfully supporting these Casinos, The GrandPrive group has decided to Snub affiliates, and break 1000's of agreements they made with affiliates to market their casinos through out the planet.

Nothing so blatently and openly corupt as this, has ever happened to the Affiliate Community.

Not to even mention with a Microgaming Operator.
As the God Father of our Industry, Microgaming has always been the Brand affiliates felt they could trust.
Not just for themselves, but for players too.

If Microgaming allows this kind of coruption within their brand, then how can affiliates ever feel safe again. Who will be next to breech affiliate agreements to save themselves?
And how long before players are affected, too?

Yes, Casinos have closed down and stiffed us, and players too, but no program that I'm aware of has ever continued to operate while stiffing 1000's of Affiliates at the same time.

And then to have the unmitigated NERVE to open a New Casino, and request that all of the people they JUST Stiffed to come sign up and promote their new casino while they Cross market the new casino to the Non U.S. Players of the affiliates they just snubbed.
This has to be the most brazen SLAP in the FACE, the industry has ever seen!

Most of the time a large operator takes over, and all agreements are honored. We've seen Rewards Affiliates do this several times.
They took over Cooks and Kingdom, and then all the Casino Profit Share casinos as well.

Star Partners absorbed Goldenstar, and there are other examples too.

Microgaming always made sure Players were paid when an MGS Casino closed up, and this should be no different.
They should step up on this to protect the integrity of the Industry, and the affiliates that have helped them achieve their goals over the years.

This is a Historical Affiliate Industry blow unlike anything ever witnessed before in the online Gambling Industry.
It sets a precedence that could open Pandora's Box for any operator, from ANY Brand to save themselves by defrauding the Affiliate community out of YEARS of their hard work.

There may not be a PERFECT solution for GrandPrive and Affiliates. However, you would think there is a solution that would allow both sides to share in the problem, get some payment on their exsiting players, transfer the non U.S. Players, and assist them with the new casino at the same time.

That would certainly be the honorable thing to do, IMO.

[mojo]

Good post CPA. Though I havent promoted them much in the last couple of years, I know a lot that do. This blows big time. Their new affiliate site should be boycotted! Who wants to be ripped off TWICE!

If they will do this to affiliates, then I dont trust them to treat players fairly either. That is a big concern as well. I hope microgaming is looking out for them.

I would like to know how and why they came to this decision.

[The_CPA]

It's the bottom line. There can be no question about that.

Just an educated guess, because I obviously don't have the financials sitting in front of me, but they reached a point where profitability became a problem.

It could even be that they aren't losing money, and my guess is that they aren't, BTW.
It may have just reached a point where they were not making enough to justify the entity itself.
Some of that could be due to poor management of the operation, but I can't really prove that either.

You're not going to take significant business risks if at the end of the month your Net, Net for your time and money is a cheeseburger and fries!

You may not be losing money, but you're not making enough to justify the investment.

Again, totally subjective, but I think Grand Prive reached this point!

Not crashing and burning, but just reached a point where it came down to doing something dramatic to make the company profitable enough to continue operations, or close the doors.

Unfortunately, in our crazy business there is an option that you could never even consider in a real world business environment, or a regulated world.

Quite simply take the 25% or so net affiliate payments, stiff them,and move that money over into the Net, Net column on the financials and we're making good money again!
Cross market all the Non U.S. players the affiliates sent us over the years, and we have a new casino up and running nicely with no marketing costs involved.
Not rocket science obviously.

That would be what they are doing, IMO.

How did it happen?
Well, you would never do anything this outrageous if your bottom line was at least tolerable, and since it's clear GrandPrives wasn't, UIEGA was probably the first blow.
UIEGA hurt all of the casinos more than I think many of them are letting on.
Losing the 13 States was significant, but apparently their bottom line was still TOLERABLE.

MGS closing out of the U.S. had to be the final blow to the bottomline, IMO.

Inadequate management? Poor management? Bad Marketing? Poor Client Communications? Who knows. Probably some of it all!

A dog with a Note in his Mouth can make money in a booming industry.
Times have changed, and only the strong will survive with ETHICAL and good management now.

The weak will fold or sell out, the strong will get stronger, and the diabolical will try to survive no matter who they hurt in the process.

As Affiliates, We need to figure out WHO the STRONG ones are now.
Who will be around a year from now, and who won't.
To me this is paramount for affiliates.

We can't be building Player bases at places anymore only to see a company go south with them. You probably won't get them back again on one your tags at another casino, so IMO, they are just gone forever.
It's NOT entirely about the loss of income at a program that folds, it's about losing those players you worked so hard to get to give your business some long term stability, and consistency.

The disappointment in Grand Prive is unmeasurable, and I still think there are solutions available whereby they can be honest, negotiate a fair deal, get their profitabilty up to a tolerable level, and continue forward with their heads held high.

If they don't talk and negotiate something though, then I can't see how anyone could wish anything good for them in the future.
Sad, and I hate to feel that way, but how else are we supposed to feel?

[bb1webs]

Hi all,

it looks very likely that we will be snubbed and the existing casinos will continue to operate and new one also may be released.

whether you have ever had anything to do with this group or not is it paramount that every single voice step forward and we literally send a message that also has never before been seen in affiliate marketing in this industry (and hopefully any other)

we as a collective (and this means working with all forums) have at our disposal the ability to burn down any casino that has burned us down.

If everyone runs a news headline to warn players that "based on recent business actions concerning 1000s of broken contracts we strongly advise avoiding these casinos and if you have money in them to get it out now".

It is 99% certain that at this point it is too late to make anything work with affs getting money from this bunch which makes them the perfect target for making an example.

If you don't want to find yourself in here some day seeing this same request being made about the program you're most fond of .... then help send the message this time around.

Do not just read this and do nothing. put up a note on the front page and tell people.

When that times comes and it should be soon I will make a new thread about it.

This is very serious folks and must be dealt with swiftly and severely.

[joeyl]

Sportingbet were the first to pull something like this, they got away with it.

[greek39]

As I stated in the past.

Saw it coming May 2006

greek39

[The_CPA]

Sportingbet were the first to pull something like this, they got away with it.

You're right. Had forgotten that.
I doubt they had as many affiliates though, which minimized the damage.

From what I'm seeing, this is going to get a lot of attention in the weeks, months, and probably years to come should they survive the long haul.
I doubt the affiliate community will ever let this one just fade away.
People are hurt, frustrated, and extremely angry.

Behind the scenes, even the normally passive people are saying things that are totally out of character for them!

Not really good for anyone, IMO, but I don't know what in world they expected.

I think they will find themselves very isolated in an industry that depends on cooperation, a good reputation, faith, and trust from Affiliates and Players.

This is a bag over the head, punch in the face if there ever was one.

I hope the other Operators within Microgaming also take up the fight for the affiliates too.
They should as this reflects badly on them too, and the trust they have built up with Affiliates and Players.

This is just bad all the way around the block!

They should have discussed it with the affiliates.
I'm sure something acceptable could have been worked out rationally to appease both sides. JMO.

Then again, RATIONAL doesn't seem to be a part of their equation!

[mojo]

They should have discussed it with the affiliates.
I'm sure something acceptable could have been worked out rationally to appease both sides. JMO.

I dont know what could be done, perhaps they could have bought out the players for us or something. I dont think they are intested in negotiating.

[The_CPA]

Glad you picked up on that.

There may have been other solutions, and probably still are if this doesn't go on too long!!!

While it may have seemed an insurmountable thing to negotiate, I think most affiliates would have been willing and happy to work out a plan to help an ailing partner.
I believe this was grossly underestimated by GrandPrive.

I don’t think this about them WANTING to screw us, BTW.
I think it’s about them making enough money to justify continuing on in the business.
I believe they saw this as the only way out, and I don’t think that’s correct.
There are choices here, IMO.

First and foremost, honesty would have to be a part of it.
It could easily be, or have been negotiated by one of the larger affiliate forum owners privately, IMO.

If my back were to wall, as must be the case on this, I would have been honest, and asked my affiliate partners to work with me on a plan so that the company could move to tolerable profitability, and the affiliate partners would eventually be paid in full too.

I would have asked for a 5 year escalating pay plan to pay current and ongoing commissions.
Perhaps at the rate of 50% of the amount due the first year, 75% the second, and 100% the third.
In years 4 and 5, I would pay 100% of the current due everywhere, along with 1/24th per month of the outstanding unpaid balance from the first three years of the plan.

In 5 years, everyone would be 100% current.

Any non U.S. Players would be mapped over to the new casino and paid at full affiliate rates if the player decided to play the new casino.
If the player wants to stay in the older casinos, that’s fine too, and the rate plan described would apply.

That is a Partnership of sorts, and what I describe as a Win/Win negotiation for everyone.

They get make a tolerable profit.
They don’t have to screw the affiliates, and the affiliates still care and appreciate the fact that they negotiated instead of just screwing them out right like they are doing!

If the financial condition is SO BAD that a plan like that wouldn’t work for them, then they need to be shut down right now!
If they can’t get it together in 5 years, they should be put out of their misery anyway as far as I concerned.

In the end, a plan like this would at least provide some modest positive promotion of the new casino by many affiliates, although not all probably.
It would put some money in EVERYONE’s pocket, and avoid the major backlash of affiliates that is about to happen across the planet.

It would maximize the remaining U.S. Player’s action, instead of Affiliates VIGOROUSLY trying to get players to stop playing there.

It would help to preserve the integrity of Grand Prive, and it's ownership, as well as the industry itself!

While not an ideal situation, it would certainly be a hell of lot better for THEM and US, than what we got going on right now!

It's not too late GrandPrive!
If you can see some value in this,.....come to the table and discuss the problems you are facing. We CAN HELP, IMO.
I believe the community would much rather work with you, than to work against you.

JMO, of course, and I'm sticking to it!

[universal4]

I don’t think this about them WANTING to screw us, BTW.
I think it’s about them making enough money to justify continuing on in the business.
I believe they saw this as the only way out, and I don’t think that’s correct.
There are choices here, IMO.

I have to disagree with you on that.

IF...they had at least talked to us, then maybe I might believe that....BUT...

...Since they completly ignored us...and it appears have no intention of talking to us....then I too may join the blacklisting campaign...

Rick